Abat jetzt kaufen?


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496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongo@thomas14

 
  
    #26
13.03.13 16:09
damit meinte ich v v r  oder prescience .... ((weiteres bsp.  "Tinterparts Trading GmbH We were unable to locate any information about this company. " (zitat: prescience)....google mal das hier: Interparts-Trading GmbH oder airpro elektrofahrzeuge......übersetzungsfehler? absichtlich? zufall? soll sich jeder mal selber ne meinung bilden, aber soviel zur gründlichkeit der analysen.... ))
ich will hier nichts schönreden! seit längerer zeit gibt es keine finanzberichte mehr. über dem ganzen schwebt auch noch ein gerichtsverfahren. keine ahnung warum sich das ganze derart in die länge zieht? aktueller status: "The law suit is under settlement period " (darauf richtet sich mein blick und mein weiteres handeln)

NOCHMAL: ich will hier keinen zum kauf animieren! hochspekulativ! abat ist gelistet in den pink sheets und "has been labeled Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)"

jeder ist für sein eingenes handeln verantwortlich!

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/ABAT/quote

was ist deine meinung zum thema?  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongooder noch ein beispiel?

 
  
    #27
14.03.13 20:15
http://www.pomerantzlaw.com/cases/advanced-battery-technologies

"On March 30, 2011, Varient View Research (“Varient”) published a report concluding “that the financial statements and management of ABAT cannot be trusted and therefore the stock is worth zero.” Varient claimed, among other things, that: (1) the Chairman transferred ownership of ABAT’s key subsidiary to himself without explanation or compensation;
(ABAT response: Heilongjiang ZQPT, the referenced subsidiary, has been owned by 16 investors, including Chairman Fu, since it was organized in 2002. In 2004 the owners of Heilongjiang ZQPT transferred all of the benefits and obligations of ownership of Heilongjiang ZQPT to Harbin ZQPT, a subsidiary of ABAT. Under U.S. GAAP, the transfer of those benefits and obligations meant that the balance sheet and financial results of Heilongjiang ZQPT must be consolidated with those of ABAT as if it were a subsidiary. Thus, for accounting purposes, ABAT reported in its SEC filings from 2004 to 2009 that it "owned" Heilongjiang ZQPT. In 2009 ABAT decided that it would be more appropriate to explain the relationship in detail, which accounts for what Variant View mistakenly refers to what "appears" to it to be a transfer of ownership. )
(2) ABAT leads investors to think that it makes cutting-edge electric cars (hat jemand hier wirklich gedacht abat ist eine chinesische tesla????), when in fact it produces cheap scooters and bicycles; and (3) SEVERAL OF ABAT'S DISTRIBUTION RELATIONSHIPS ARE NON-EXISTENT "



beispiel: sind folgender händler non-existent? warum gibt es die gleichen bilder auf unterschiedlichen internetseiten?

http://www.easyvelo.ch/escooter.htm (schweiz)

http://abat1.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/...eature/2012/1201/284.html   (wuxi, china)

http://abat1.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/0903/167.html

http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/altomlynx.php (dänemark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7j59gWbF20 (spanien?

?????

... die letzten links sind nur bezüglich wuxi. und mit harbin oder dongguan könnte man jetzt noch weiter machen....

hat dazu niemand eine meinung?  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongooder zu harbin

 
  
    #28
15.03.13 12:03
Harbin Zhongqiang Power Tech Inc. ( ABAT-Subsidiary )
"Our facilities at the Harbin campus manufacture medium and large capacity rechargeable polymer lithium-ion (PLI) batteries. The Company is certified by ISO 9001, and holds CE certificate and seven patents including an American patent." (ABAT)

Allegation against ABAT: the subsidiaries consist of "4 empty walls", dann muss zb die produktpalette ebenfalls fake?

auszug produktepalette einiger li-batterien für verschiedene anwendungen:

http://abat4.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/0924/218.html

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/new-product/audio/...ortable-video-player/

--------------------------------------------------


http://abat4.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/0924/225.html

http://product.pconline.com.cn/mobile/samsung/344619.html


--------------------------------------------------

http://abat4.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/0924/219.html

http://www.cnet.com.au/canon-ixus-210-is-339300897.htm#image2

http://www.google.de/...t=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:166
--------------------------------------------------

http://abat4.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/0924/227.html

http://tech.sina.com.cn/n/2008-01-08/0519544538.shtml
http://www.cnet.com/laptops/dell-xps-m1330/4505-3121_7-32465545.html

--------------------------------------------------

http://abat4.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/1103/233.html

http://www.amazon.com/...ch-TM-Superpad-Android-Calling/dp/B008DI2RDY

--------------------------------------------------

http://abat4.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/PRODUCTS/...12/0924/221.html

http://www.sdt123.com/?product-1140.html

--------------------------------------------------

Allegation: the company is an "empty shell"?

NEW YORK, August 16, 2011 -- Advanced Battery Technologies, Inc. today announced Harbin Zhongqiang Power-tech Co., Ltd the subsidiary of ABAT has been cooperating with Shanghai Pylontech Co., Ltd (http://www.pylontech.com.cn) for several months.The performances of ABAT’s polymer lithium iron phosphate battery reaches all the standards of Shanghai pylontech Co., Ltd.

Shanghai pylontech Co., Ltd is a solution provider of LiFePO4 power system with its own intellectual property, is a subsidiary of ZE holdings, which is a “Hi-tech enterprise of National Torch Plan”, and one of the 520 key-state-owned companys certified by the State Council of China.

ABAT cooperates with Shanghai Pylon Tech Co., Ltd on polymer lithium iron phosphate battery Strategily, is to make great contribution to society in the enviroment protection and energy saving area.

--------------------------------------------------

Allegation: the company is an "empty shell".... "four empty walls"?  wie geht dann das?????


On January 12, 2013, Directors  from ABAT’s subsidiary Harbin ZQPT participated in the inaugural “Rainbow Alliance Global Supplier Summit “  which was held by the Mianyang National Rainbow Communications Digital Group LLC.  ABAT’s Harbin ZQPT, along with other reputable suppliers shared in winning the title of Changhong Mobile Phone Core Suppliers. The meeting laid the basis for both sides to maintain long-term cooperation and established that ABAT’s Harbin ZQPT company has taken a new step in the field of energy and battery technology and future partnerships.

The Rainbow Alliance Global Supplier Summit brought together competent government department heads, leading technological consultants and excellent suppliers  and representatives from 200 industry partners to the meeting including Microtek and BYD.  CEO, Dr Wan Mingjiian’s speech addressed the 2013  prospects for the smartphone industry for the coming year.  An important theme of the conference was the importance of building alliances for the betterment of the whole industry.   Also discussed was the increasing relevance of the “Phablet”, or Super Super Smart Phone, a hybrid between a SmartPhone and a Tablet.

INFO:  changhong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changhong

--------------------------------------------------


?????? kann es nicht sein, dass pomerantzzz law nicht im interesse von ABAT-aktionären handelt???? sondern ABAT-aktionären mit diesem zähen gerichtsverfahren eher schadet???
kann es sein, dass die sogenannten anonymen "short-artikel" es bewusst nicht zu ernst mit der wahrheit nahmen, die wirklichkeit verzerrten, um an fallenden kursen zu profitieren???

wie gesagt, zum jetzigen zeitpunkt bleiben frage offen  .... aber ist die argumentation der basher fraktion wirklich so wasserdicht, dass man daraus schliessen könnte, der "stock is worth zero" (VVR)??? Meinungen?  

1789 Postings, 4991 Tage thomas14@ gongo

 
  
    #29
18.03.13 22:07

 danke für deine ausführliche recherche. tu mir heute aber nicht mehr all die englischen texte an. auf alle fälle habe ich nie gedacht dass du pushen wolltest. keine sorge :-). hab ehrlich gesagt keine ahnung was ich vom ganzen halten soll. hab vor längerer zeit mal einen limit-kaufauftrag reingegeben der vor kurzem ausgeführt wurde. werde es einfach mal liegen lassen und gucken was passiert :-).

 

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongo@thomas14

 
  
    #30
19.03.13 15:09
"...einfach mal liegen lassen und gucken was passiert"

akzeptiert, jeder trifft seine eigenen investmententscheidungen - ich mach das nicht so gern, nicht mal bei butter..., egal

zurück zum thema:


weitere Anschuldigung von VVR gegen ABAT:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/...acquisition-a-complete-fabrication

In our previous report explaining why we are short Advanced Battery Technologies (ABAT), we claimed that “ABAT spent $20 million to acquire a company linked to the Chairman without disclosing the relationship.” Further research confirms that the truth is even more nefarious than we initially believed. The target company was not only related, but appears to be a company that ABAT had already acquired in 2008 for $1 million. The announcement of a new acquisition appears to be a fabrication allowing Chairman Fu to funnel $20 million of shareholder funds out of the company into his own pocket.
We thought it was strange that the company acquired an entity with the “ZhongQiang” branding, since ABAT’s existing subsidiaries are also branded ZhongQiang. ZhongQiang roughly translates to “Strong”, so it is not a common part of company names.
( "zhongquang"-begründung ist völlig aus der luft gegriffen. kann jeder ausprobieren. google: “ZhongQiang” und man findet 254.000 results, die nichts mit ABAT zu tun haben. für mich scheint die begründung von vvr "strange",denn nach dieser argumentation muss es einen zusammenhang geben zwischen zb. applied biosystems, applied nanoscience, gamma applied vision group oder applied material - alle enthalten das wort "applied" - "strange"?)

Pomerantzzz Law "übernimmt" auch scheinbar wieder die Beschuldigung von VVR :

http://www.pomerantzlaw.com/cases/advanced-battery-technologies

The Complaint alleges that Defendants made false and/or misleading statements and/or failed to disclose that:
....(4) the Company paid $20 million to purchase a company, but failed to disclose the related party nature of the transaction;...

ABAT's Antwort:

Variant View's "proof" of an undisclosed related party transaction is that the acquired company and Company subs both have the letters "ZQ" in their name and that the Company's Chairman was listed as an officer and representative of the acquired company. Given the thinness of the "proof," it is hardly a surprise that Variant View just got it wrong – again.
Until we acquired it in January 2011, the registered owner of the registered equity of Shenzhen ZQ was Wang Changhe. He is the person to whom the purchase price for Shenzhen ZQ was paid.
The Variant View report notes that our Chairman, Fu Zhiguo, is identified as an officer and legal representative of Shenzhen ZQ in that company's government registration. That is correct. In order to register the acquisition of Shenzhen ZQ by Harbin ZQPT with the provincial government, Mr. Wang, the seller, gave Mr. Fu a power of attorney to represent the company before the government. This was solely an administrative convenience, as the purchase of Chinese companies cannot be completed without government registration performed in person.

also welches spiel spielt vvr und co ( an fallenden kursen profitieren, indem man wahreit verzerrt? - dann ist vvr schonmal der gewinner! glückwunsch! shortinteresse liegt nur noch bei 672900aktien.. das ding scheint durch!) oder welches pomerantzzz law (gerichtsverfahren sind  immer lukrativ, zumindestens für die anwaltskanzlei, egal was bei rauskommt... also irgendwie auch gewinner! - glückwunsch! )
und solange u.a. der rechtsstreit nicht beendet wird, wird es wohl auch keine nachhaltige erholung des aktienkurses geben....
also wer schadet den aktionären? irgendwie in erste linie doch die jetzigen gewinner?

1. vvr und co
2. pomerantzz law
3. natürlich auch abat - keine finanzberichte und unbefriedigende kommunikation (egal was man davon hält, die gründe dafür liegen womöglich in punkt 1 und 2 ?,m.m.)
und undurchsichtige VIE-structure von Heilongjiang ZhongQiang Power-Tech Co., Ltd.,  allerdings mit der absicht:
We are in the process of transferring the assets and operations of ZQ Power-Tech to Harbin ZQPT. (ABAT)
 

oder was übersehe ich hier?  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongoPartners Suppliers Association 2013

 
  
    #31
28.03.13 14:01
On March 16, 2013 ABAT hosted a suppliers conference with key suppliers.  The goals, successfully achieved,  were to facillitate communication,  to consolidate partnerships and to increase confidence.  At the meeting the Dongguan leadership along with Mr. Zhigou Fu,  Mr Qiang Fu, Mr Zhai and Professor Xu thanked the suppliers and then elucidated the importance of the supply chain and reviewed the various data forms and the principles therein.  Targets for the year were stated which established confidence and motivation for the suppliers.  Also announced were the anticipated specific needs for various raw materials for the April to September time period.   Each supplier can participate in the competitive public bidding after purchase orders are announced.  Looking ahead,  ABAT reviewed and elaborated on both the  procurement program and marketing strategy for the new year in order to enable producers and suppliers to meet future demands and encourage cooperation.  Also discussed with various suppliers were the the anticipated trends for the coming years.

http://abat.sys145.pkulab.com/a/English/...ongguan/2013/0328/470.html  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongo2013 Canton Fair

 
  
    #32
17.04.13 13:09
2013 China Import and Export Fair (Canton Fair) Spring

Date: Apr 15, 2013 - Apr 19, 2013


China Import and Export Fair, also known as the Canton Fair, is held biannually in Guangzhou every spring and autumn, with a history of 55 years since 1957. The Fair is a comprehensive one with the longest history, the highest level, the largest scale, the most complete exhibit variety, the broadest distribution of overseas buyers and the greatest business turnover in China.


siehe Featured Exhibitors: "2" anklicken

 http://www.globalmarket.com/exhibition/2013/...on---Phase-1-1180.html
                                   
 - Wuxi Angell Autocycle Co., Ltd.  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongotelefonat

 
  
    #33
1
22.04.13 13:55
sehr interessanter beitrag eines users über ein telefonat mit einem securities-anwalt.

http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadview/...&tls=la%2Cd%2C4%2C3

http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadview/...&tls=la%2Cd%2C2%2C3


dieses gespräch verdeutlicht sehr gut, warum es so wichtig ist für chin. rto's (in der jetzigen situation) während eines rechtsstreits keinerlei infos nach aussen zu tragen, obwohl sie dabei gegen sec-regeln verstossen, sowie die pflichten gegenüber ihren aktionären verletzen, aber letztendlich im interesse ihrer aktionäre handeln.
es wird u.a. entscheidend sein, wie sich abat verhält, nachdem der rechsstreit beigelegt wurde.


"ABAT, formerly trading on NASDAQ, currently trades on the PInk Sheets during the phase of internal reorganization and litigation. Our manufacturing, operations, sales and marketing are ongoing. " (ABAT)
-------------------------------

hier nochmal gebündelt:
I called him and we talked at length, about 45 minutes. This is a summary of the conversation.

Jim:
If you were advising a Chinese RTO, do you think you would advise them to not file their periodic reports during the class action lawsuit..

Attorney:
Yes, absolutely and I would advise them not put out any press releases and stay as dark as possible.

Jim:
Why?

Attorney:
First and foremost, if they go dark, the attorney's for the plaintiffs cannot use anything in their periodic reports against them. Second, it forces them to have to spend a lot of money to prosecute the case. They would have to go to China and review 1,000's of documents that are in Chinese and would all have to be translated. The cost would be phenomenal. they would not want to do that.

Let me add to that. Our job as attorneys is to protect the company, not the shareholders. Our job is to protect the company and it would be very expensive for us to go to China for due diligence. Just one week would add up to over $50,000 not counting the work we are doing here in the U.S.

See, the key is to avoid discovery. Both for the benefit of the settlement and for the cost involved for the company.

Jim:
But isn't the company obligated to file with the SEC?

Attorney:
Yes, those are the rules.

Jim:
But isn't it the law?

Attorney:
Yes, but it is not like a criminal law where if you break into someone's house you immediately get arrested.

Jim:
Please clarify that.

Attorney:
When you break a typical law, you are immediately looked at by the authorities. In the case of the SEC, they are looking for fraud. Not filing your periodic reports, you are not following the rules, but you are not defined as a criminal.

Jim:
But don't they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to file their periodic reports?

Attorney:
Think about the question Jim? They have fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders. Yes, by all means they do. But by going dark, by not filing or putting out press releases, they could risk the chance of causing the plaintiff's attorneys to decide to go through discovery. If that happens, you are talking about two bad things happening. One, the enormous cost for the company and the shareholders to go through discovery which could amount well over $10,000,000. Second, they face the risk that one little item found by the plaintiffs during the discovery process could lead to a victory for them, either of these things could lead to the company going out of business. Our job is to minimize their exposure and get them out of the lawsuit as quickly and painlessly as possible.

Jim:
But the SEC?

Attorney:
Yes, the SEC is an issue, but not as great as the issue of losing their business.

Jim:
Could they get their shares revoked?

Attorney:
It is possible, but that is better than losing the company. If you look at it from that perspective then you could probably understand it.

Jim
What are the odds of the SEC revoking shares?

Attorney:
That's a hard call and I have not looked into the specifics of what they are doing now.

Jim:
What happens if the shares are revoked?

Attorney:
The shares can still be traded just like when a company voluntarily deregisters with the SEC. The company is still there. The earnings are still there. The ownership structure is still there.

Jim:
So the best option is for them to go dark?

Attorney:
Yes.

Jim:
Wouldn't that cause a massive decrease in the share price?

Attorney:
Yes, most likely.

Jim:
How can that be good for shareholders?

Attorney:
It is not good for shareholders in the short term. In fact, it is obviously more to the advantage of the investors that hold the shares short.

Jim:
So, the people who benefit are the ones that caused the situation?

Attorney:
Yes, that is a fact, so long as they cover when the price is low.

Jim:
If you ask me, that sounds like (B)(S). The ones that caused the problem in the first place benefit even more by this strategy you have advanced.

Attorney:
It is what it is. You have to keep in mind the goal of the company is to save the company. A class action lawsuit can often put a company into bankruptcy. It is not supposed to, but it does and happens more than you think.

Jim, think of the logic. Is it not best for the company to minimize both cost and risk for the shareholders?

Jim:
Yes. But this all sounds like a crock of s....

Attorney:
Only in the short term. By going dark, they minimize the chance of the Plaintiffs going through discovery. That reduces costs by thousands if not millions of dollars. Second, by settling for a small amount of money, they have protected the assets of the company as apposed to risking losing the entire company.

Attorney:
Let me add to that. Let's say you bought shares in a company at say $6.00 in 2010, and you sold them in 2015 for $14.00 that is very nice return on your investment. If the company comes out clean and protects their assets and their business continues to grow, then when they come out of the dark period, when they file audited financials and asset verification, the stock will return to normal valuation.  

898 Postings, 7113 Tage aktivDer Sommer kommt

 
  
    #34
22.04.13 18:42
Ich denke das Abat vom größten Fahrradboom aller Zeiten profitieren wird. E Bikes UND Akkus sind in der ganzen Welt gefragt.  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongonur $275,000 settlement

 
  
    #35
29.04.13 16:19
... das ist schonmal ein sehr grosser schritt in die richtige richtung! jetzt werden die nächsten schritte von abat entscheidend für eine mögliche nachhaltige kurserholung sein.... es bleibt spannend!  

898 Postings, 7113 Tage aktivTolle Nachricht

 
  
    #36
29.04.13 17:19
kann man die irgendwo nachlesen ? Dann wäre der Weg nach oben frei.  

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongo@aktiv

 
  
    #37
29.04.13 20:50
bei pacer

http://www.pacer.gov/

die reaktion darauf ist eher verhalten.es gibt noch zu viele unbekannte.... die einigung im rechtstreit mit der kleinen summe, ist allerdings ein hinweis, dass man abat nichts gravierendes nachweisen konnte....
shortinteresse lag zuletzt bei 673k aktien.... gefahr eines grossen shortsqueezes eher gering.....
ich vermute auch, dass eine beendigung des rechtstreits nicht unbedingt nachhaltig zu steigenden kursen führen muss. abat muss wieder finanzkennzahlen veröffentlichen. es sind welche angekündigt, allerdings nur eine "internal audit"(siehe letzer brief an aktionäre). besser wären natürlich die üblichen sec-quartalsberichte mit gleichzeitigen relisting im nasdaq....  einen andere möglichkeit wäre privatisierung - hoffentlich zu einem fairen preis.. oder ....  

6 Postings, 5356 Tage MatischackWas meinst Du mit oder...

 
  
    #38
30.04.13 09:02

Totalverlust?

Wie siehst Du die Chancen auf eine Kurserholung?

 

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongo@matischack

 
  
    #39
30.04.13 09:37
die chancen für eine nachhaltige kurserholung sind womöglich dann gut, wenn abat sich an die SEC-regeln hält und wieder auf "normalen" weg mit seinen aktionären kommuniziert.
der letzte q-bericht stammt aus dem jahr 2011! seitdem ist einiges passiert (eröffnung dongguan etc.)....
wie profitabel ist das neue werk bzw ganz abat? wieviel aktien gibt es ( http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2011/06/30/...hase-Program.html ) ? was ist der BW? wurden die vermögenswerte von zq power-tech zu harbin zqpt bereits übertragen? wer hat welche position im vorstand? etc.... der aktionär weiss derzeit nichts!
eine beendigung des rechtsstreits ist ein erster schritt, viele weitere müssen folgen. nur dann kann es zu einer nachhaltigen erholung kommen....
ich empfehle die entwicklung anderer chin. RTOs zu verfolgen, dann kann man erahnen wie  schlecht oder gut sich die dinge hier entwickeln könnten....  

6 Postings, 5356 Tage Matischack@gongo

 
  
    #40
30.04.13 20:42

Danke Dir für die ausführliche Antwort Gongo.

 

1789 Postings, 4991 Tage thomas14so langsam...

 
  
    #41
14.05.13 09:14

kommt bewegung rein. denke zwar, dass sich batterien für autos (da eher brennstoffzellen) nicht durchsetzen werden, jedoch sind auch e-bikes ein riesiger markt. oder???

 

ach so, denke das abat wieder die kurve kriegt und weitermachen kann.

 

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongoLimited Financial Report for 2012

 
  
    #42
14.05.13 09:53

1789 Postings, 4991 Tage thomas14macht auf....

 
  
    #43
14.05.13 11:04

alle fälle einen serieusen eindruck :-)

 

898 Postings, 7113 Tage aktivWahnsinn,

 
  
    #44
14.05.13 12:23
Jetzt kann es kontinuierlich zum wahren werden der Aktien gehen.  

9 Postings, 4509 Tage PAFIVielleicht ja morgen.... ????

 
  
    #45
14.05.13 17:46

1789 Postings, 4991 Tage thomas14was...

 
  
    #46
14.05.13 21:46

 ...wäre eurer ansicht nach der "wahre wert" der aktie?

 

 

 

496 Postings, 5446 Tage gongoweiterhin eine frage von vertrauen

 
  
    #47
15.05.13 10:20
kann man den nicht unabhängig geprüften zahlen glauben?

"The financial statements were prepared in accordance with the enterprise financial accounting rules generally accepted in China.  Preparation of the financial statements, particularly the balance sheet, in accordance with U.S. GAAP could result in significant changes.
No independent auditor has reviewed these financial statements. Only our employees participated in the preparation and review of this information."

ok,ein weiterer schritt in die richtige richtung. der interne bericht war also solcher angekündigt und wurde nun (auf der abat-webpage) "veröffentlicht". dies kann man durchaus positiv werten.... und jetzt? ( wohl erstmal abwarten bis zum final settlement und hoffen, dass dann abat wieder nach regeln spielt...)  

7885 Postings, 5143 Tage hammerbuyaktiv

 
  
    #48
10.06.13 16:47
alle Achtung ... hast eine super trendy wert erwischt ...
AHA ... 3 euro ..und steigend schreibst du ... Teufelskerl !


ach so---  0,20€ ist  die jetzige Kurs - also du brauchst nur noch ver-15.-fachen .. viel spass :-) du schaffst es !  

898 Postings, 7113 Tage aktivKommt darauf an wann man einsteigt

 
  
    #49
10.06.13 16:54
Und wie viel zeit man hat:  Nordex auch nicht schlecht. Bis dahin  

7885 Postings, 5143 Tage hammerbuybist noch

 
  
    #50
10.06.13 17:00
in adv. batt. investiert ?  

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