2 Milliarden $: Patriot Scientific gegen intel
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Wie ich soeben drüben in einem amerikanischen Board gelesen habe, scheint es heute keinen Gerichtstermin gegeben zu haben!
Es scheint Schwierigkeiten bei der Terminierung und Festsetzung der Daten gegeben zu haben.
Wie es genau weitergeht, war von Hawkins auch auf Nachfrage nicht zu erfahren!
(Antwort der Patriot-Anwälte zum Stand des Verfahrens)
David als Antwort auf Ihre E-Mail, datiert vom 12.,
Bewegung in die Verfahren könnte in beiden Fällen in den Monaten Juni und Juli kommen. In dieser Zeit sind derzeit die Hearings geplant.
Die aktuellen Termine in dieser Angelegenheit können auf aktueller Basis auch durch Zugriff auf die fallbegleitende Website des Gerichtes erhalten werden.
(der " Intel" - Fall und der " Fujitsu" - Fall sind beide Richterin Armstrong zugewiesen worden, die im Oakland-Bezirk amtiert; der verwandte Fall zu " inventorship" , und " Ownership" ist Richter Fogel im Distrikt San Jose, dem nördlichen Bezirk von Kalifornien zugewiesen worden).
Wenn Sie auf eine schnelle Lösung für die Fälle hoffen, könnten Sie enttäuscht sein. Verklagte haben erfahrungsgemäss eine übliche Vorliebe dafür, um alles zu kämpfen, und sie tun es, so gut und so lange sie können.
Ich hoffe nur, dass der Richter dieses Tuns einmal müde werden wird.
Casson
nota bene:
Zweierlei Gutes könnte man der Verfahrensverschleppung derzeit abgewinnen:
1.
Die Verzögerungen deuten darauf hin, dass Intel sich vom Ausgang des Verfahrens kein gutes Ende erhofft.
2.
Für uns als Anleger, die einige Zeit hier mitgebracht haben, läuft die Spekulationsfrist!
Liebe Grüsse an alle hier von
Casson ( der das hier locker und entspannt auszusitzen gedenkt )
Ps.:Atila wird weiter PTSC aufstocken - denn viele Zocker werden die Geduld nicht
mitbringen und in den nächsten Wochen verkaufen (vielleicht werden wir noch
günstigere Einstiegsmöglichkeiten erhalten,...)
wenigstens tageshoch... mal schaun was morgen geht.
gruß
john robert ben
Habe Euch mal den Text aus dem Agoracom Forum kopiert:
Im zweiten Absatz ist die Rede von Prozessoren...bis jetzt waren GD Prozessorlieferant unsere geliebte PTSC!!! Wollen Wir hoffen, dass es auch weiter so bleibt...wer weiss, eventuell gibt es schon heute News für uns....zu wünschen wäre es jedenfalls!
Subject: General Dynamics to Develop Prototypes for New Ground Sensor Systems
From Balder
PostID 339663 On Saturday, June 26, 2004 (EST) at 2:27:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------
General Dynamics Corporation (ticker: GD, exchange: NYSE)
News Release - Thursday, April 29, 2004
Press Contact: (703) 271-7452
General Dynamics to Develop Prototypes for New Ground Sensor Systems
ARLINGTON, Va. – General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD), has received a $2.5 million contract to develop prototypes of a new type of ground sensor called “Massively Deployable Unattended Ground Sensors” (MDUGS). The contract was awarded by the U.S. Army Communications – Electronics Research, Development and Engineering Center (RDECOM), Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate, in Fort Belvoir, Va.
The MDUGS program includes a networked system of small and affordable sensor nodes for detecting, classifying, identifying, localizing and reporting threats. Remotely deployable using a variety of systems, the MDUGS nodes include acoustic and seismic sensors, radios, processors, and algorithms. The nodes operate together on an ad hoc and self-healing network.
The contract consists of a 20-month prototype development effort that includes the development, fabrication, integration, test, support and demonstration of MDUGS prototype units operating in a networked system. The resulting technology will be the foundation for future unattended ground sensor systems.
Headquartered in Arlington, Va., General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems provides transformational mission solutions in command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) to customers in the defense, intelligence, homeland security and homeland defense communities. More information can be found at www.gd-ais.com.
General Dynamics, headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, employs approximately 68,400 people worldwide and had 2003 revenue of $16.6 billion. The company is a market leader in mission-critical information systems and technologies; land and expeditionary combat systems, armaments and munitions; shipbuilding and marine systems; and business aviation.
# # #
Notice the specific mention of processors in the second paragraph. Are they refering to PTSC?
What Is Patriot’s Game?
By Linda Geppert
A minor player in the microprocessor industry is suing big users of Intel’s chips for hundreds of millions, but it can’t even get in the courtroom door
7 July 2004—You may be forgiven for never having heard of Patriot Scientific, of San Diego. The seven-person firm has been losing money for more than a decade and has made an unremarkable journey from being a developer of ground-penetrating radar to being a minor microprocessor designer. But along the way, it believes it picked up the ownership of the clocking technology that runs nearly every microprocessor operating faster than 120 MHz—a cutting-edge speed way back in the early 1990s. The company estimates that US $18 billion worth of chips with its technology were sold in the United States last year alone.
In the last several months Patriot sued five Japanese electronics giants for hundreds of millions of dollars and has told more than 150 other companies that their products might be infringing on Patriot’s patent. But during its quest for cash the company discovered that it may not have full control over the patent after all. The technology’s coinventor, software maverick Charles H. Moore, and his representatives may have the power to block the company, potentially preventing a river of money from flowing from some of the best known computer companies to Patriot.
The clocking technology at issue allows today’s microprocessors to run at multigigahertz speeds. Typically, the microprocessor gets its external clock signal from a crystal oscillator on the motherboard that runs at about 100 megahertz. This relatively slow speed is needed, because it is difficult propagate a signal with a frequency higher than 200 MHz over the distances found on a circuit board. But the microprocessor itself can run much faster. So microprocessors use an internal clock that runs many times faster than the external clock yet remains synchronized to it. U.S. patent 5809336, or ’336 for short, assigned to Patriot, describes the internal clock scheme.
Very much out of the holiday spirit, Patriot filed the first set of lawsuits on and around Christmas Eve (24 December) 2003. They go after five electronics manufacturers—Fujitsu Computer Systems, Matsushita Electric Corporation of America, NEC Solutions, Sony Electronics, and Toshiba America—for patent infringement. According to Jeff Wallin, Patriot’s chief executive officer, the company first asked the five companies to license the technology covered by ’336. “There was a good deal of communication with a number of companies before we took the actions that have been publicized significantly over the last few months,” he said. “And when we were unable to make any progress with licensing, then we filed the lawsuits against them.”
One thing all the defendants have in common is the use of Intel microprocessors in their products. And so Intel Corp., Santa Clara, Calif., filed suit against Patriot, asking the court on in February to declare that it is not infringing on the ’336 patent. The Intel suit argues that since Patriot is suing Intel customers, it is reasonable to assume that it will “initiate an infringement action against Intel should Intel continue to manufacture and sell the accused microprocessors.”
But whether Intel and all its customers will have to pay Patriot the millions it is requesting hinges on the resolution of a yet another legal attack by Patriot. This one began in March with the aim of determining once and for all who invented the technology behind ’336. And, says Patriot’s lawyer, Russel “Cap” Beatie, “you can’t understand anything unless you understand this lawsuit.”
The technology behind ’336 comes out of a microprocessor architecture called Sh-Boom, which Charles H. Moore (also the inventor of the Forth programming language) and a colleague, Russell H. Fish III, designed in the 1980s. Back then, of course, ICs ran at a much slower speed—well under 100 MHz. Even so, the two inventors realized that their microprocessor was capable of running at much higher frequencies than an external clock could supply. “Sh-Boom was pretty simple and pretty streamlined for its time and therefore the circuitry ran faster than other contemporary processors,” explains industry analyst Jim Turley. “So it follows that the inventors came across this problem sooner than others might have.”
Moore and Fish submitted the patent application for their Sh-Boom microprocessor to the U.S. Patent Office in 1989. But the patent officer evaluating the application wanted it broken up into many smaller patents, each of which should cover one element of the design. “A number of patents were eventually issued. And one of those patents—the ’336—is, in our view, almost universally used,” says Beatie, a partner at Beatie and Osborne LLP in New York City.
Sometime before the granting of the ’336 patent, one of the inventors, Fish, transferred his interest in the Sh-Boom inventions to a family trust. The trust sold Fish’s interest to a company called Nanotronics, which, in 1994, sold it to Patriot. It is on the basis of these transactions that Patriot believes itself to be the sole owner of ’336.
But on the patent itself, there are two inventors listed, not one. And under U.S. law, a patent owned by more than one person cannot be the basis for an infringement suit unless all the owners sue. “If one of them refuses, for whatever reason,” says Beatie, “you have a patent that is worthless.”
So while Fish, through the trust fund and then Nanotronics, has assigned interest in the patents to Patriot, Moore has not. In fact, says Beatie, Moore refuses to participate in the infringement suit and has licensed his coinventor rights to Technology Properties Ltd., an intellectual property company based in San Jose, Calif.
Moore has been silent on the whole business. And it is Technology Properties’ president, Daniel Leckrone, who is “driving the rig,” says Beatie. And why won’t Moore participate in the suits? According to Beatie, he and Technology Properties “want money, which we are willing to give them. But they want a lot of other, unreasonable things that we won’t give them.” At press time, Leckrone had not responded to requests for comment.
So the purpose of the suit against Moore, Leckrone, and Technology Properties is to establish that despite what it says on the patent, Fish alone invented the high-speed clocking device. “Fish has made some statements to that effect,” says Beatie, “And Moore has made some public statements that tend to support it as well. So we have asked the court in San Jose to give us a declaratory judgment, a ruling, saying that in fact Patriot is the sole owner of the ’336 patent.”
The company asked for a December trial date. But the judge in the case instead ordered the parties to undergo mediation, much to the annoyance of Beatie, who believes the other side is behaving in bad faith.
In the meantime, Patriot, which lost $3.8 million on revenues of $123 000 in its 2003 fiscal year has had to get by mainly on sales of communications products that were phased out in 2002. It is pinning its future hopes on Ignite, the modern successor of the Sh-Boom microprocessor. It sells the device and also licenses a software version of the design to manufacturers of smart cards and handheld wireless devices and expects to receive validation contracts from customers in the near future. According to Wallin, the design provides a smaller area and lower power consumption than other comparable microprocessors.
As to the legitimacy of Patriot’s claim of infringement, analyst Turley believes it is not frivolous. “In my estimation it’s a perfectly sound patent and seems to be defensible,” he says. “Can I predict the legal outcome? About as well as I pick racehorses.”
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http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1572709,00.asp
hier die Übersetzung:
Patriot Scientific vs. Intel et 150 sociétés OupssS! :p Die Gesellschaft Patriot Scientific clame hohes und starkes qu'Intel hat eines von seinen Patenten verletzt und verfolgt also in Justiz das Unternehmen und beabsichtigt gut, ebenso gegen 150 andere Gesellschaften zu machen. Sony, Fujitsu, Toshiba, NEC oder noch Matsushita werden bereits seit Januar verfolgt. Das Verbrechen, das berufen auf wurde: Patent 5.809.336 verletzt zu haben, das im Juni 1995 klassifiziert und das am 15. September 1998 gewährt wurde, das als Titel "High Leistung trägt, microprocessor having Variable speed system clock" (Mikroprozessor hohe Leistung, die eine Uhr veränderliches Geschwindigkeitssystem hat), bedeckend " die Mittel, die durch l'industrie vom Mikroprozessor benutzt wurden, um die Geschwindigkeit des internen Funktionierens der modernen Mikroprozessoren zu erhöhen. " Diese Gesellschaft verlangt, wäre es nicht qu'aux fünf japanische Hersteller verfolgter PC, die modique Summe von mehreren hundert Millionen Dollar. Intel beabsichtigt nicht, davon dort zu bleiben, puisqu'il seinerseits verfolgt Patriot auf der Tatsache, daß seine Produkte Patent 5.809.336 nicht verletzen. Das Unternehmen will ebenfalls, daß Patriot sich anhält, seine Kunden zu verfolgen. Allerdings, erklärt Jeff Wallin, Präsident de Patriot, daß n'importe, welcher Mikroprozessor, der mit Geschwindigkeiten über 110/120MHz funktioniert, l'objet d'une Übertretung seines Patents machen kann. Es wäre also alles Pentium, das nach Patriot beschuldigt würden...
naja nicht gerade glücklich das übersetzungsprogramm!
Robert Wright, VARBusiness
Mi. Jul. 21, 2004
From the Juli 26, 2004 VARBusiness
If you thought being sued by SCO for using free software was wild, imagine being sued for having a computer that surpasses 120 MHz.
Patriot Scientific, a small microprocessor-technologies firm based in San Diego, recently announced it had notified more than 150 U.S. companies, including NEC, Sony and Toshiba, that they were potentially infringing on its patents by using chips that ran high speeds. The patents in question? They're for "high-performance microprocessors having variable speed-system clocks," one of which was approved just last summer. Patriot makes a proprietary 32-bit RISC processor called Ignite and claims its patents gave it ownership of the system.
The company began an "intellectual-property compliance campaign" in 2003, and late last year fielded lawsuits against dozens of companies it claimed were infringing on its patents by using chips that ran higher than 110 MHz to 120 MHz, despite the fact that no exact speeds are mentioned in the patent files. Nevertheless, Patriot says its alleged technology ownership represents a near-$20 billion market in the United States this year.
Sensing it was next on Patriot's list, Intel filed a suit seeking a declaratory judgment to exempt it from Patriot's patent-infringement suit. Soon after, Patriot filed a countersuit and recently upped the ante in April by threatening more than 150 additional companies.
Patriot is strapped for cash and has dropped other product lines while pursuing its intellectual-property crusade. But if the company has its way, it may soon be handing out many a speeding ticket.
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SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., July 19 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- A team led by General Dynamics (Nachrichten) today was awarded a $295 million contract to develop small, lightweight software-defined radios for use by all branches of the U.S. military in devices such as unattended sensors and soldier systems. General Dynamics, a leader in the development of the computer-based radio technology that uses software to enable a single system to emulate many types of radio, is the prime contractor for the program. The contract has a potential value in excess of $1 billion through 2011 if all options are exercised.
The U.S. Army developer for the radio is the Office of the Product Manager for JTRS Cluster 5 within the Project Management Office for Warfighter Information Network-Tactical, part of the Ft. Monmouth-based Program Executive Office for Command, Control and Communications-Tactical.
Called "Cluster 5" of the Joint Tactical Radio System (JTRS) program, this effort will transform joint service operations by providing communication flexibility and adaptability to fighting forces. By delivering three different device types -- power-efficient manpack, handheld and "small-form- factor" applications -- the program will meet future warfighting needs for decades to come. As many as 14 applications or form factors could be called for under the contract, each driven by an advanced radio core the size of a credit card.
"JTRS Cluster 5 provides the crucial last-mile connectivity to the Army''s transformation vision, and enhances the ability of U.S. joint forces and our allies to fulfill their global missions," said Mark Fried, president and general manager of General Dynamics C4 Systems. "This is the first time in modern telecommunications history that the military will effectively leapfrog ahead of the commercial communications market as it relates to radio capabilities."
Currently, joint military deployments require the services to rely on many makes, models and types of radios, and few of them communicate seamlessly with others. The JTRS program plans to replace the traditional hardware radios currently deployed with devices that can emulate any radio''s capabilities by simply changing software. Fielded JTRS radios can be upgraded with new software via the wireless information network. This ability to insert emerging technology into the JTRS system paves the way for broadening the radios'' performance and creating new applications such as sensors for signals intelligence.
General Dynamics will lead the development of common hardware and software elements that will be used in all Cluster 5 Joint Tactical Radio sets, as well as provide program management and systems engineering expertise, and manufacture some of the radios to be delivered through this program.
About the General Dynamics'' Cluster 5 Team
The General Dynamics JTRS Cluster 5 team also includes BAE SYSTEMS (Wayne, N.J.), Rockwell Collins (Cedar Rapids, Iowa) and Thales Communications (Clarksburg, Md.), which are all qualified manufacturers of Cluster 5 products. Other technology contributors include Agile Communications (Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.), Altera (San Jose, Calif.), Datasoft (Tempe, Ariz.), RedZone Robotics (Pittsburgh, Penn.), Sarnoff Corporation (Arlington, Va.), Tessera (San Jose, Calif.), Vanu Inc. (Cambridge, Mass.), General Dynamics Robotic Systems (Westminster, Md.) and General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (Arlington, Va.).
BAE Systems Communication, Navigation, Identification and Reconnaissance group has a long history in radio products and ad hoc networking solutions, including leadership roles in JTRS technology, Advanced Joint C4ISR Node Multi-Mission Platform and the Army''s Future Combat Systems team for ground and air communications. BAE Systems has demonstrated and developed architecture, hardware and firmware compliant with the new JTRS Software Communication Architecture standards and is working with General Dynamics to meet Cluster 5 size, weight and power requirements. BAE Systems is a co- developer and qualified manufacturer of many of the Cluster 5 form factors including all classes of unmanned aerial vehicle, unattended ground sensors, and intelligent munition systems.
Rockwell Collins provides design, production and support of aviation electronics and communications for government and commercial customers worldwide. Rockwell Collins will leverage its worldwide leadership in wireless communication and avionics to provide leadership in the development of all classes of unmanned aerial vehicle and manpack radios for the program. The company will be a qualified manufacturing source for these and other Cluster 5 form factors. In addition, Rockwell Collins will lead the effort to integrate waveform software into the Cluster 5 radio sets for the General Dynamics team.
Thales Communications, Inc. is a global leader in providing battle-proven, software-defined, tactical radios for use in size, weight and power- constrained environments. Thales has delivered more than 30,000 software- defined tactical radios to the U.S. government, the governments of allied nations, and various tactical radio prime contractors. Thales brings the expertise and success on the JTRS Cluster 2 (Special Operations Command procurement) program to the General Dynamics team, helping to ensure that the Army''s schedule is achieved in a low risk, cost effective and fully compliant manner. They will lead the development of the Cluster 5 Handheld and be a qualified manufacturing source for these and other form factors.
About General Dynamics
General Dynamics C4 Systems is a leading integrator of secure communications and information systems and technology. With more than 7,000 employees worldwide, the company specializes in command and control, communications networking, computing and information assurance for defense, government and select commercial customers in the U.S. and abroad.
General Dynamics, headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, employs approximately 68,400 people worldwide and anticipates 2004 revenues of $19 billion. The company has leading market positions in mission critical information systems and technologies; land and amphibious combat systems; shipbuilding and marine systems; and business aviation. More information about the company can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.generaldynamics.com/.
General Dynamics
© PR Newswire
Related
Patriot Scientific Corp. (PTSC) Silicon IPs
SAN DIEGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 17, 2003--Patriot Scientific Corp. (PTSC) (OTCBB:PTSC - News), a developer of advanced embedded microprocessors, today announced that General Dynamics Decision Systems has licensed the IGNITE(TM) microprocessor core.
This agreement will enable General Dynamics to provide its customers with innovative and power-efficient solutions and products. The PTSC IGNITE microprocessor was selected over other embedded microprocessors as a result of its performance characteristics.
"We are delighted that IGNITE has been chosen by General Dynamics Decision Systems for this development effort," said Jeff Wallin, PTSC president and CEO.
"General Dynamics' decision to integrate the IGNITE architecture into its leading-edge products will enable them to provide low-power single chip solutions," said Dr. Patrick Nunally, PTSC vice president and CTO. "We look forward to working with General Dynamics."
hab die geschichte gleich zu beginn abgeschrieben,auch geistig.
schau auf den kurs vieleicht einmal die woche wenn es was wird dann wirds wenn nicht dann eben nicht .
finde aber trotzdem schön das du diesen thread am laufen hälst.
Danke TIMM
By Robert Wright, VARBusiness
Mi. Jul. 21, 2004
From the Juli 26, 2004 VARBusiness
If you thought being sued by SCO for using free software was wild, imagine being sued for having a computer that surpasses 120 MHz.
Patriot Scientific, a small microprocessor-technologies firm based in San Diego, recently announced it had notified more than 150 U.S. companies, including NEC, Sony and Toshiba, that they were potentially infringing on its patents by using chips that ran high speeds. The patents in question? They're for "high-performance microprocessors having variable speed-system clocks," one of which was approved just last summer. Patriot makes a proprietary 32-bit RISC processor called Ignite and claims its patents gave it ownership of the system.
The company began an "intellectual-property compliance campaign" in 2003, and late last year fielded lawsuits against dozens of companies it claimed were infringing on its patents by using chips that ran higher than 110 MHz to 120 MHz, despite the fact that no exact speeds are mentioned in the patent files. Nevertheless, Patriot says its alleged technology ownership represents a near-$20 billion market in the United States this year.
Sensing it was next on Patriot's list, Intel filed a suit seeking a declaratory judgment to exempt it from Patriot's patent-infringement suit. Soon after, Patriot filed a countersuit and recently upped the ante in April by threatening more than 150 additional companies.
Patriot is strapped for cash and has dropped other product lines while pursuing its intellectual-property crusade. But if the company has its way, it may soon be handing out many a speeding ticket.
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By Crista Souza, EBN
August 11, 2003 (12:17 PM EDT)
URL: http://www.eetimes.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=18309168
SAN MATEO, Calif. — A little-known microprocessor developer has been quietly amassing a patent portfolio that it now is bringing to bear with the hope of extracting licenses from systems companies.
Patriot Scientific Corp. (PTSC) announced it has been awarded an additional patent for a fundamental microprocessor technology widely applied in RISC and CISC processors: the use of clock multiplication to accelerate performance.
It's the third time in as many weeks that a small company has sought to boost its earnings potential by claiming ownership of a basic technology—the other two being Palmchip Corp. and ePlus Inc. But rather than go after its natural competitors--MPU core developers and chipmakers--PTSC is pursuing would-be customers.
The company last summer quietly launched a "patent compliance" campaign, seeking IP licenses from hundreds of systems companies in the commercial, industrial, and military sectors that use microprocessors with internal capabilities greater than 120MHz, a market it sized in excess of $200 billion.
U.S. patent 6,598,148 B1, which was awarded last week, "substantially strengthens the validity and scope of our patent enforcement efforts," said Jeff Wallin, president and chief executive of PTSC, San Diego.
The aim, Wallin said, is to get companies to license its technology, not to do battle in court.
"We're trying to go about this in an upfront and noninvasive way," he said.
Wallin declined to identify any companies PTSC has targeted, but said efforts so far have not resulted in any licenses.
PTSC began life in 1987 as a defense contractor, but has more recently focused its developments on embedded microprocessors for commercial applications like smartcards and handheld and mobile wireless devices.
PTSC's flagship product, which was introduced in 1994, embodies the 6,598,148 B1 patent. Known as Ignite1, the chip is a low-cost, medium-performance, 32-bit RISC processor that is able to run both C and Java code without a co-processor.
Wallin described the architecture as a "uniquely modified stack," as opposed to the register-based structure common to most processors. It features single-cycle memory access, and uses fewer gates to achieve its performance level than competing devices, he said.
PTSC uses the technology contained in the patent to boost the processor's operating frequency while using a low-speed crystal. The result is a lower-cost, lower-power-consuming device that also creates less radio interference.
"It's very clever," said Jim Turley of Jim Turley Associates in Monterey, Calif., and a member of PTSC's scientific advisory board. "It seems to do stuff a lot of microprocessors either have or wish they had."
In 2001, PTSC began marketing a processor core based on the same technology, and IP licensing has since become its main business thrust. The company is working with a number of undisclosed ASIC and SoC companies in Asia, Europe, and the United States.
For the first nine months of fiscal 2003, the company registered revenue of $86,439 and a net loss of $2.86 million.
PTSC is one of more than a hundred 32-bit embedded-processor developers, according to Turley.
As a small company, there's a question of how much legal muscle PTSC could bring to enforcing its IP. However, even the most powerful chip companies have grown weary of drawn-out legal battles that can cost more to litigate than it would be worth in royalties or a settlement fee, according to Turley.
"You don't necessarily have to outspend your foes on something like this," he said. "The cynical view is, you can always find someone that will just agree to pay up and be done with it," he said. "Then again, there are others that will fight vociferously."
(This story first appeared on EBN, a sister publication of EE Times).